Madonna Fowler

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Personal narrative of Madonna Fowler
From: Madonna Fowler (mf)
Medium: Audio tape
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999
Place: Home of Madonna Fowler, 4555 Star Dr. Marion, Indiana 46952
Collected by: Matt Edwards (me)

00:00 me: I am John Matthew Edwards. This is the 27th of April, 1999. This is being recorded at 4555 Star Dr. I am speaking with Madonna Angeline Fowler. Please state your name Madonna Fowler.

mf: My name is Madonna Angeline Fowler.

me: Do I have permission to interview you?

mf: Yes.

me: Do I have your permission to submit this interview to Marion High School?

mf: Yes.

me: Do I have your permission to submit this interview to the Marion Public Library?

mf: Yes.

me: Could you tell me about your childhood in the forties?

00:50 mf: In 1940 I was nine years old and, uh, my childhood was very interesting, quite unlike, uh, the, uh, life the children have today, that’s for sure. Um, I lived very close to downtown Marion, between 2nd and 3rd on Nebraska streets. Uh, downtown was, I could say, was like a second home to me. My father had a restaurant on 4th St. between Adams and Branson, when I was young, uh, and, uh prior to 1940, that had been like a second home. Um, it was a very large restaurant, um, and in the back of the restaurant, uh, there was so much room that my sister and I were able to ride our tricycles, and this is when we were very young. Course, this would have been in the thirties, but in in 1940 my father opened up a smaller restaurant, and this restaurant was located at the corner of 5th and Adams. It was a much smaller restaurant as I said, and so I was still going downtown, uptown, whichever way you wanna say it. Um, we would walk most of the time. Um, my father had a 19 I’m not sure what year Buick, and, uh, on occasion we would we would all be in the Buick, but, most of the time, we walked a lot which was good for us, as we know now. Uh, life was, like I said, pleasant.

07:38 mf: We were very fortunate in living where we lived we were very close to our, uh, grade school, elementary school, and even close to high school. I went to, uh, Horace Mann Elementary School. In fact, I attended kindergarten there and, then, went to junior high at, uh, at Martin Boots and of course Marion High School. It was located on Nelson St.. Um, during the forties, I would’ve been still in elementary school, and, uh, one thing that I can remember so well about that was the candy store that was located right across the alley from the school, and it was always a pleasure, usually after we had been home for lunch, um, to go in and have some penny candy, penny candy, and, as I said, we, we did go home for lunch because we were only, uh, a stone’s throw away, just walked down the hill at, uh, at, uh, 3rd and Nebraska, and our house was in the middle of the block. Uh, my mother worked very hard in the forties, uh, at the restaurant, and so, as I said, after school was out, uh, most of the time now this might’ve been in the mid or later forties that that we would walk to the restaurant as we were older. That we would walk downtown and walk to the restaurant, stay and work a little bit, and usually eat our supper there, um, then walk home with mother I remember those days very well. My father, of course, kept the restaurant open longer and would come home later. Um, like I said, these were these were very great years for us.

04:30 mf: Living close to town also afforded us to live very close to a bakery and in fact even a second bakery, but the one I’m remembering first of all would be Pierce’s Pie Shop or Pierce’s Bakery, and they made wonderful caramel rolls, and it was usually my sister who would walk to the, uh, pie shop, the bakery and buy caramel rolls, and that was our breakfast treat, and, uh, I can still taste those today as they tasted then, and, in later years, up the street farther was Rosemary’s Bakery, and their caramel rolls were absolutely wonderful, and that would have been more in the forties late forties and even into fifties, but, anyway, we lived close to bakeries which was wonderful and, uh, to all the ten cent stores downtown, I remember very well Kresky’s and Newbury’s and Woolworth’s and what a joy it was to go into the ten cent stores and, uh, look around and, course that’s when you could buy bulk candy, by the pound you know [inaudible] chocolate malted milk balls and chocolate covered peanuts and the stars and all those wonderful chocolatey things that you could buy plus gumdrops and wonderful things like that and most of these, um, places I know in later years would have a lunch counter, uh, as I recall I don’t believe they did in the forties I may may be wrong but later on I know they did and and as with Woolworth’s they moved from one spot to another and ended up in a much larger store er building and did have, uh, a lunch counter and that was very good later on.

06:15 mf: Uh, I enjoyed all my high school teachers. We, uh, enjoyed basketball. Uh, actually we were able to walk to the memorial coliseum and go to see the games. My mother went to see the games with us for a good many years, except in later years, in ill health, she was told to stay home because it made her too nervous that that really hurt her, but anyway we did walk across the bridge in the cold and and go to the basketball games, and I remember in fact taking my brother and his friends to the Marion armory for a wrasslin match, and, uh, that’s that of course was not not something that maybe I enjoyed all that much but anyway they wanted to go so I, I escorted about five to the to the wrassling match at least maybe twice at least once of course but I think maybe twice we went to the wrestling matches.

07:19 mf: One thing I remember about Marion were the wonderful theaters that we had. The two largest and, uh, best theaters were the Paramount and the Indiana. The Indiana was very close to my dad’s restaurant, uh, just, uh, in between the two of us, um, a candy kitchen and I, uh, I can’t believe that I have actually forgotten the name. I think that was I don’t know whether that was the New York Candy Kitchen or not but it was the one that the that, uh, Leonard Spearson and Anna Spearson and, um, Louie Choches owned and, um, that was next to the Indiana. Then, the Paramount was located on Washington St. between 2nd and, um, 3rd and the candy kitchen next to them was owned by Nick Choches, and, um, and his son Pete Choches, uh, ran the candy kitchen as as his father got older, and, uh, these were wonderful places to buy popcorn before you went into the theater, and, uh, they poured the butter on and topped it with the, uh, large, dark, dark red skinned nuts, and it was it was really delicious. Uh, back to the theaters, there were two other theaters and one was the Lyric and these were located on 4th St. between Boots and Washington. Uh, one was on the uh North side of the square. One was on the South. The, uh, Lyric was on the North side of the square. It was it was not a bad theater and it was it was and we sometimes attended that theater, but across the street was the Lunalight. I hope I don’t have the locations mixed up, but anyways across the street from each other and it was, I don’t know that I was ever in it but it was it was rumored that rats ran over your feet, now this probably didn’t happen at all but it was just not as nice as the one across the street from it, and as I said we were downtown so much that we were able to go to the movies quite often, and of course it didn’t cost very much to go to the movies, and I don’t know that you could say it was like a baby-sitter. I don’t really think that it was that way but possibly. It gave us something to do while our parents were working but we had also helped in the restaurant to and so ah I think I saw all the cowboy movies that there ever were: uh, Johnny MacBrown, Hop-Along Cassidy, Roy Rogers, you name ‘em I saw ‘em. Um, in fact, one time, Gene Autrey was in Marion, and he had his horse champion out in the alley there to the side of the Paramount, and, uh, we were able to go back, um uh, to see the horse, and I remember petting the horse, and, as I recall, my mother took a hair out of the horse’s tail out of Champion’s tail. So, uh, that was something that I do remember, and it was enjoyable. Uh, at at times we actually took a small bottle of coke in a paper bag with a straw in the coke into the, uh, theater, and we had our had something to drink. That was when, I recall, there were no concessions sold in the theaters at all except I guess you could take popcorn in but I don’t recall that you took drinks in. Now this this may I may be wrong there, but, anyway, and at times we even snuck a hamburger in because that was my, uh, my father’s wonderful hamburgers and so sometimes we took them in with us.

11:14 mf: Um, I do recall too during those years that was, um, those were the war years. I recall being in the Indiana theater when they announced about made the announcement about Pearl Harbor and like I I’m not so sure that I was really aware of the consequence of that but I did know that it was something that was rather frightening and that something really bad had happened. I do know too, um, the theaters, um, gave, um, as prizes, um uh, war war bonds. Uh, I was recalling this, and I finally remembered exactly what had happened, and I know my dad, they would have a drawing, how often I’m not sure whether it was once a month. I don’t imagine it was once a week but my did did win a $500, uh, savings bond from the Indiana Theater, and, um, all of which reminds me of of buying stamps which you put in a book to buy savings bonds. Uh, we would buy these at school. I imagine they were sold many other places also, uh, and when you filled the book. You turned it in and were given a $25 savings bond, war bond, and um of course that was worth you had spent $18.75 on it and when it matured it was worth $25. So, this was a way that the government made money, extra money, to promote and support the war during those war years. Also, I do remember the rationing. I remember standing in line. I do know that. I’m sure I remember people standing in line for cigarettes. We didn’t do that but, um uh, for, like, nylon hoes, for sugar, and, as I recall, we did have rationing for shoes. I I had to think that about that, but we did have rationing for shoes at that time. So, I remember standing in front of the stores, you know um, and we’d maybe get a new pair of shoes every spring or fall. I’m not sure if it was that many, but we had to do that.

13:40 mf: Um, Marion has changed a lot over the years. I wish I could recall all the different changes. As I said earlier, some of the stores moved around a little bit. The Hoosier Market, that was located at the corner of 3rd and, um, okay 3rd and, um, Washington and, uh, of course meat was sold in the bulk, and you could, uh, buy cottage cheese, butter, probably even some produce. I don’t really remember, but they were noted for their meats, all varieties of meats, and they had the organ meats, you know, the brains, um, kidneys, um, liver, you know, and I’m sure they had cracklins and such as that, and lard. I’m positive they sold lard back in those days cause that was what people used to make the best piecrusts was lard. Uh, there was also Haag’s Drug Store, like I said, all the ten cent stores a wonderful penny store there was a Hill’s department store that has nothing to do with the Hill’s today. There was the old Marion Hardware that was located at 5th and Washington. There were grocery stores downtown. Um, now that might’ve come along in the late forties, but there was the A&P, and there was the Standard grocery store. At one time, there was a Kroger’s grocery store downtown. Not, not right at the square, but off of the square some, um, down, uh, South, South of the square a block or two. Um, I do also remember something about the old Montgomery Ward store that was located at, um, I think it’s where the coffee grounds, uh, building is now. It’s a vacant building right now, but the latest shop in there, uh, after it was remodeled was, uh um, it was used in that manner, but the old Newbury’s, no that was the old Montgomery Ward store. They had the, uh, the old fashioned method of, uh, sending the receipts and the money up to an office up above you and the money tins would travel on a cable. Then, your change and your paid receipt would come back down, and the clerk would open it up somewhat like, only very small, but somewhat like the, uh, bank, uh er, drive-in boxes only quite small compared to that, and that was always fun to stand there and watch those go on these little cables across your head.

16:30 mf: Penny’s store was was, um, on the square it was on the West side of the square, and one of one of the things that I certainly remember about Penny’s was the wonderful Santa Clause that they always hired each year, and his name was Hawkins. I know that because my mother knew him. She she would talk to him some, um, and would recognize him then, you know, when he was not in his Santa Clause suit. He worked at the Farnesworth, and his, uh, his outfit was absolutely beautiful. It was one of the loveliest ones. I’m sure that you wouldn’t see any nicer today he alway... he really looked like the Santa clause with gorgeous white hair and beard, and as I said his costume was just perfect. His complexion was, uh, was just like you thought Santa oughta look, and he I don’t believe he had to pad himself he was heavy enough that he didn’t have to do that and he had a marvelous laugh “ho ho ho”. Uh, right outside, uh, the door at penny’s the Salvation Army each year at Christmas would set up what they called the “Mile of Dimes”, and people would try to give their donation in dimes. There was also the kettle though, and ‘course the bell ringers were there, and you could drop bigger bills in that, and, um, I’m not sure but maybe they didn’t change some of those into dimes, uh, so as to fill up the the quite long table. It was had a metal top as I recall, and they just lined the dimes up, and it, it maybe was eight feet, I don’t know how long it was, to a child it was pretty long, and they would fill this up many times over. I have no idea what amount of money they might have collected then but I’m sure it was it was, um, comparable to what is received today in a much smaller amount but money, uh, went a lot farther then. You could buy things a lot cheaper than we can buy them today.

18:30 mf: I, um, like I said my dad’s restaurant was at the corner of, uh, 5th and Adams. I remember, um, across the street, uh, caddycornered across the street was a typewriter shop called Central Typewriter. It’s, I think, still in existence today. I think it’s, it’s certainly changed location, and and, um, it’s quite different I believe. It was not exactly on the corner. It was it was East, uh, right behind what might have been Bob Sisson, Robert Sisson owned that building on the corner, and I think he had a, er, real estate business there and the street the other way and directly across the street on Washington, er, Adams from my dad’s restaurant was, uh uh, the News Herald, and of course that existed until just a couple of years ago. I’m sure, definitely, under different management. I also remember a little farther North across the street on Washington was the Miller Supper Club, and they were located there, and I think at one time they moved further on down the street.

19:55 mf: There was also at one time a Chinese restaurant along there, and of course I remember the wonderful Spencer Hotel that was down at the corner of Washington, 4th and Washington, and now it’s the county building, and, um, the, uh, Spencer Hotel had a beautiful lobby, and there would be dances held there. There was a ballroom, um, there, and, um, it was it was just a lovely very well known hotel, nice place to stay.

20:30 mf: I think in the forties if you if you would check, I believe, the interurbans were no longer running, but across from my dad’s first restaurant, the one that he closed in the forties on 4th street, between as I said Adams and and Branson, was the inter urban station, and, um, there was quite a lot of traffic in and out of Marion in the thirties, but I believe that was probably gone in the forties. I I’m not positive about that I do remember of course all the trolley cars, and as a young person, it was I was probably in the mid forties to the later forties that I rode to the South Marion Men’s Fair that was held every year in the South Marion business district, and we rode the trolley car to the fair more than once more one year I’m sure, and, um, they set up rides, and, um, you know, rides that, um, that you still see some today like I remember the caterpillar and, um, I’m not sure what they call... well the whip there was the whip and we would travel the trolley car also I’ve never rode the the trolley car at Christmas but, uh, I don’t I didn’t carol on it but there was a special trolley car that that I as I recall was decorated for Christmas and different groups, school groups and church groups, would, uh, sing, uh, carols from that trolley car, and they would travel around Marion, and, uh, that was a wonderful sight to see and to hear. Of course, it had speakers so you could really hear that.

22:25 mf: I, um, I’m not really sure what else I can say about downtown, I do remember too that we had a tavern, um, right downtown and as I recall it was called Charlie Czech’s. I’m not sure about the spelling of it, and as we would walk home from the restaurant we would kinda shy away from the doorway. We we would walk closer to the curb and the street because there was, especially in nice weather, men standing out there in the nice weather. It had the swinging doors like you would see in a western movie or something, and as I recall there were spittoons there, and I’m trying to think what else. Course Montgomery Ward was on that street. I don’t remember what was on the corner except I think the corner of, um, 3rd and, um, 3rd and Washington was at one time a Hook’s drug store, and I recall that’s where we would stand in line for, or people would for cigarettes, and what else we would stand in line there for, oh probably the nylon hoes. I think what else I might remember around the square. I don’t have much recollection of the East side of the square, not much at all. The, uh, the North and the West sides seem to be seem to be what are in my mind more than ever.

24:04 mf: I also, um, remember the the, uh, wonderful ice creams that we had, uh, sometimes on the way home from the restaurant in the evening, we had an ice cream cone and I’m trying to think there was there was Producer’s creamy Creamery but that was on on um Nebraska St.. Um, well I guess where maybe where the {inaudible} or Sutter’s was located later. I’m I’m not sure where that was, but seems like to me further on down Nebraska St. there was there was a creamery, and we would sometimes, uh, take a ride in the summer, and dad would take us down would pick us up and take us down for an ice cream cone. Then, he’d take us back home and go back to the restaurant.

24:58 mf: So anyway, Marion was a wonderful place to live, and I feel it’s still a wonderful place to live, and I enjoy all the progress we’re seeing now. My years as I said in high school, um, were, uh, calm and, uh, very enjoyable. I did go, um, to, um, the state game in I hope I’m remembering this in ‘47. I know I did and would go to the semi finals, um, a couple of times in my high school years. My sister graduated in ‘47 and I graduated in ’49, uh, but I was active, uh, with with her and her group of girlfriends. So so we did travel around to the, uh, the state tournaments when we could.

25:53 mf: Also, we, um, were are still members of Gethsemane Episcopal Church, and they are located at the corner of 9th and washingtro Washington streets and celebrated their hundredth year I think maybe seven to ten maybe ten years or more ago. Um, my mother was introduced to the church by a lady named, uh, Jessie Arnold. She and her husband owned a photography shop that would be in the location of, it was an upstairs shop and I think it was probably, above where Brunt’s is now, and, uh, she introduced my mother to the church and, uh, invited her, and so we were members of Gethsemane Episcopal Church, were baptized, and confirmed there, and, uh, we would walk to church. I remember one time walking to church for midnight mass, and, uh, it had sleeted. It was the slipperiest nine or ten block walk that we’d ever had in our life, and but as as I recall we did make it to church, and like I said {inaudible} been in the church ever since. Umm, many beautiful churches were downtown at that time that are no longer there. Course the Christian church building is still there, but there was the temple congregation church I do remember that located as I recall, uh, adjacent to the library. It was a very very nice church. Um, like I said, the Christian church, the the building, still exists. Um, the I’m trying to think of other things other buildings other activities, um, like I said we walked every place, and it was good for us. We enjoyed it. We walked to church, and, uh, in the very late forties always stopped at Hook’s drug store, uh, this might’ve been fifty, I may be wrong, but they had moved to another corner they were at, um, 4th and Adams at that time, and, uh, we, uh, would stop in have have a cup of coffee or something something to eat after church. Um, I’m not sure that I can think of much else to say about Marion at that time.

28:29 mf: Um, I was not able you know did not get in a car and drive over the rest of the city, so I was limited, uh, really to the downtown area, and, um, I’m really glad for that. I I’m still I still love the downtown of the city, and I especially love downtown Marion, and, um, I’m very pleased to be involved in being back downtown again with the, uh, renovation of the Webster house, the Marie Webster house, at, uh, in the 900 block of S. Washington St. It will be the quilter’s hall of fame and also the opening of an office, uh, in a building right downtown for the quilter’s hall of fame.

29:18 mf: I, uh, like I said I did enjoy all my teachers I liked school I remember, um uh, especially my, um, music. I, um, took musical, uh uh, classes all the way through junior high and high school and enjoyed the choruses and singing very much. Um, I still like to sing today and do sing in the church choir. I don’t recall that we traveled very much, uh, as far as the choruses. I do remember, uh, a school trip or two. We did go to, um, the, um uh, creamery or I’m not sure what it was which one it was then, whether it was Producers or not, on Nebraska St. about 7th or 8th on Nebraska and I remember watching the them bottling the the milk, and I can it was a chocolate milk as I recall at that time, and it was very fascinating to see those bottles, um, being, uh, capped, and also that makes me think of, um, the milk man when he left milk at your house which is the practice, was the practice then in those years, and if you didn’t get the milk in soon enough, and it was cold weather you would certainly have the cream coming up through that, uh, paper cap lifting up as it froze, and you would have frozen cream on the top of your milk sticking up an inch or two. Um, I don’t recall, possibly um remember maybe ice, but that would have been back in the thirties but we had a refrigerator in the forties, I do know that, an electrical refrigerator. Um, were these the years of the twenties and thirties I could probably, not that I lived in the twenties, but I could I could tell you a lot more about what I remember about Marion, and what my father did when he was young, but since this is the forties um we’ll just um try to recall that. In, um, 1949 like I said I graduated, and then I did attend one year of college in Danville, IN so I was out of Marion at that time for a while.

31:57 mf: Uh, I do recall that we did have some lovely ladies shops and men’s clothing stores in Marion in the forties and even on into the fifties. Uh, there was the Paris and Resnick’s and there was, uh, Milton’s clothing store and that was a men’s Milton’s men’s clothing store. There was Richard’s men’s store, um, and of course, lets see I’m trying to think. I know there oh, um, Queen City forgot to mention Queen City. We had lovely jewelry shops, jewelry stores downtown in those years.

32:43 mf: It was really quite a bustling town, and, um, and and what people would do on Friday and Saturday nights they’d go downtown and park the car on the square, and then you would sit and visit with people as they walked by. You might sit in your car and just people watch, or if you knew somebody they’d stop and talk, or you’d get out of the car and visit, maybe take a walk around the square. It was it was quite a meeting place. I’ve heard it or or read it that the malls have taken over in this, um, in this area but let me tell you there’s there’s nothing like what I remember in the malls. This was something very special and as I said, uh uh, it was especially nice at Christmastime. The, uh, courthouse, they would string lights from the top of the courthouse over to the buildings, uh, multicolored lights, so the whole square was covered with um like an umbrella of electric Christmas lights all lighted, and it was it was quite beautiful at that time. I don’t really remember what other Christmas decorations, but I I know all the stores would have had a lot of Christmas decorations in their windows, and, uh, it was it was just beautiful place, and with the snow on the ground, crunching under your feet, it was it was just lovely it really was, and as I recall they I believe played music from the courthouse Christmas carols, so you had music downtown. It sounds like Christmas was one of my favorite times of the year, and I guess it really was.

34:26 mf: Um, I remember the old post office, um, before they built the new one. I remember seeing the wrecking ball tearing the post the old post office down. As as I recall it was a very pret pretty building, and I suppose they felt they needed to modernize and there were as I recall too, nu numerous steps to get up into the the, uh, post office, and across the street from the post office at 3rd and Boots was um Barnie’s cafeteria or Barnie’s Cafe, I believe it was cafe but it was as I remember essentially a cafeteria style eatery and Barnie was a family name, a well known name in in, uh, Marion, and in fact Carl Barnie was the mayor of Marion, and I’m not sure what years those were, but the the building, um, existed as a cafeteria until just, um I suppose, about a year ago not, the Barnies no longer owned it, and I’m not sure I think Carl Barnie managed it, possibly not while he was a mayor, but there were I believe brothers and other family members that would have run the cafeteria and, uh, or cafe, and it was a a very well known place. There were a lot of Greeks, uh, Greek families, in Marion. There were two chili bowl type restaurants there was, um, course my dad’s restaurant. My dad was was a Greek, had come to the United States when he was seven year er seventeen years old, and, um, the food business seemed to be what he felt he wanted to do, so anyway he had his restaurants over the years. There was, um, two or three shoe shine parlors, um, run by Greek families, Greek men, um, also they would clean and block hats and repair your shoes, shoe repair shops. There was, uh, one particular family, uh uh, Kuchuas was their name, and there were two brothers. At one time they had sep separate shoe repair shops but then combined in later years to one located at Washington and Boots St. on the, uh um, Southeast corner. Then there was, um, George Michos. He had a shoe repair shop. Then there was both John and, um, Nick Michos, and they were the gentlemen that had, um, had Coney island or chili chili bowl one of them was called the chili bowl Michos’s was called the chili bowl, as I believe as I remember, and John Michos’s was, um, the Coney island then there was a gentleman named Jim Rowlis and he had a restaurant in town someplace on on 4th St. at one time, so there was quite a a large group of of, uh, Greek families, and I’ve already mentioned the two candy kitchens one was Nick’s and, um, Nick’s candy kitchen was the one by the Paramount and that was the Chochos Nick and Pete Chochos. The grandfather, uh, Nick is the grandfather of the Nick Chochos we know today here in Marion and the other one was the New York Candy Kitchen, and it was also was a Greek family, and then a lot of the clothing stores, the proprietors, were Jewish families, so we had Marion has a good heritage from those two groups, and, like I say, all these businesses were very, very thriving and well kept well kept stores in those years and had a lot of business.

38:45 mf: Course there were no malls. There was no mall, so you went downtown for all these things that you needed, your school supplies and whatever. I remember thinking a number of years ago when the ball store closed, I don’t know why I thought of this in particular, this was this was the Ball store furniture where the furniture store is located now on 5th and Adams, 5th and Washington, but, uh, I thought there’s no place in Marion any longer, downtown, to buy a tablecloth, and I don’t know why that stuck in my mind so, I think I was wanting a new table cloth, and there was no place downtown any more, and I I thought well that’s certainly the end of an era. There are so many things you cannot go downtown and buy anymore, but it’s it is coming back, and I’m pleased for that. Um, as I said, those were very enjoyable years. My mother was ill at that time which which did take some of the joy out of it. In the, uh, late forties she was not a well person and in the late forties she was quite ill and, uh, required some care from me even in my young years, but, uh, we still enjoyed going where we could. Someone would come stay with her, so we could go to the ballgames, so we still got to enjoy, uh, the activities.

40:19 mf: Um, I do remember one thing my father had a difficult time in in during the war years trying to obtain enough beef or hamburger, and he would grind, uh, hamburger and I recall he was able to go to Alexander, Alexander, Indiana, and and buy a little bit of of beef as well as what he could buy here in Marion. It was just not easy, uh, to to buy, uh, meat as I recall, and I’m sure there were many other food items that were scarce. I just don’t remember. I know that sugar was, and I know that meat was difficult to come by, and I guess maybe our meat was rationed. I just don’t remember. I do remember seeing the rationing books and and the stamps, so I recall that. I just don’t remember all the items that were rationed, but he managed to keep his little restaurant open. In fact, he closed it then in I believe it was 1950. He closed he closed the restaurant and and took retirement then. He had he had worked many, many years in his restaurants, and as I said if we were talking about the thirties I could certainly tell you more about the the large restaurant that he ran. It seated more than 150 people and, uh, or over 100 I think, and the pies that my mother would make for the weekend, and the volume of food that was served in that restaurant was just, uh, sort of mind boggling, but, uh, as I said he closed that in in 1940, uh, needing to, um uh, operate a smaller place at that time. I believe, um, this is probably, um, maybe all that I can really remember that would be of interest to anybody. I’m sure there are a lot more things I can or could think of, but it would take me quite a bit of time to come up with something.

42:35 mf: I, um, do remember the brick streets in Marion, and I can remember a farmers market, going to a farmers market with my mother to buy butter, and it was located on Boots St. as I recall the one I’m remembering between, uh, 3rd and 4th St., and, uh, farmers would bring their their, uh, produce in. Then, they would make, er sell, butter they had made, and and they had their little stamp in it you know. They had their little press in it, like a little flower or something, that would make it attractive and they sold noodles. I think think we probably bought noodles, some, there, but I do, for some reason. I remember the butter. I guess I was impressed with the flower the the little flower stamped into it, and at that time the gas company was located down on that street, and there was, uh, across the street from the gas company was, uh, Lloyd’s flowers, and that would have been I’m sure in the late forties. I’m trying to remember just remember what was there at that time. So many of the buildings, as as we all know, have been torn down for one reason or another, and, uh, I know we need the parking, but, uh, we’ve lost a lot of the buildings, and course they they were in bad state of repair too, so that’s that’s probably one of the reasons that necessitated they be torn down. I really am trying to think of, uh, some other buildings downtown.

45:25 mf: I do know we loved going to the park, Matter Park. I don’t recall that I got there too terribly often, but, uh, and you of course could ride the trolley to the park, and, in later years, I’m sure a bus. I just don’t remember what years would’ve, where they would’ve, changed that. Uh, the swimming pool there I, I’m not a swimmer, never learned to swim, but I do know I was there once or twice. It was lovely in those years and very well known, and I remember the, uh, the, um, well, um, that, uh, was encased, uh, in a stone like, um, area that had like separate little drinking fountains around it and, uh, somewhat of a, um, a roof over it, and, uh, the well water of course always tasted different, but it, uh, was usually cool as I recall and, uh, tasted pretty good, and of course I remember the bears, and, uh, the two brown bears, that we had in the park and ‘course I remember monkey island that was, that was quite a popular place for people to congregate, uh, and watch the watch the bear, ah er, monkeys as they performed and swung around, and, uh, I think I think at one time we had a lion. I do remember we had a lion at one time at the park, and of course I remember the old octogenarian museum. In fact my grandfather Lauren Taylor had, uh uh, an article, an item, in the octogenarian museum, and I do not know now what it was. I don’t know that it was ever discovered, catalogued or anything when everything was moved from that building, but possibly its someplace in the the library, in the basement of the library, or wherever they have the other items they’ve not shown yet. The the park was a wonderful place, um uh, of course, in the summertime, and people would gather there. There were concerts at the band shell and, uh, lots of picnicking going on and as I said swimming. That was quite a quite a popular place. I remember ah pic picnicking at family reunions there. It was always very attractive, and it still is today. It’s changed complexion some, no pool, but I do know they are planning to build a pool again, have a pool out at the park one more time.

47:30 mf: One thing I recall about my father’s restaurant the small one that I’ve mentioned, first of all I I didn’t tell you that it, uh, it seated only fourteen people. There were ten bar stools and two small booths that seated two people each, and, uh, one thing I do remember, because, like I said, we worked in the restaurant and were there quite a bit was, when a a black person would come to the restaurant, they would order their food to take out, and they would not sit down. They would stand behind the the people possibly seated at the counter. If no one was seated they’d still stand behind the stools and order their food, and it was just common knowledge, I, um, the way I understand, it as I remember it as a child that that’s the way it was done and apparently the black people realized this, and my dad did too of course, and that’s how the black people were served in those years, and, um, I, um, don’t remember any kind of an incident of in any any way shape or form involving that. It’s just that that was just the procedure. I do remember one thing that was kind of funny as I think of it now, as I’ve mentioned just earlier it was kind of difficult to obtain hamburger for my father’s restaurant because of rationing, but I remember someone complaining. Dad, I don’t believe, didn’t always have an egg sandwich on the menu but had egg sandwiches on the menu, and I remember somebody really complaining about having to pay ten cents for an egg sandwich. Now, today, if you had egg sandwiches on a menu someplace, I know you’d pay quite a bit more than ten cents, but I do remember that, and, uh, I’m not sure what else I could tell you. I do know one other thing. The restaurant in 1949, dad turned the restaurant over to Gethsemane Episcopal Church women, uh, for a fund raiser and donated the profits for that week to the Episcopal church in in Danville, Indiana, the the school, I’m sorry, Canterbury college in Danville, Indiana that I said I attended after high school, and I think the ladies made, then, uh, that was a lot of money, I think they made close to a thousand dollars. I’m not positive how much money they made, but they all worked, and they, uh, contributed the food, and my mother was still well enough, uh, at that time. She baked seven or eight hams and they sold ham sandwiches, something my dad normally did not sell. The menu was changed slightly during that time, but, um, it was a busy little place that week, so I do recall that. As far as the restaurant I don’t remember much else to add to it, um, except it was it was a fun place to be, and we had wonderful spaghetti, the best spaghetti in town. It was not Italian spaghetti. It was what I would call American spaghetti. It was delicious and, uh, wonderful baked beans and the best hamburgers in town, naturally. I sound like its a commercial, but it’s the truth I love the cheeseburgers myself.

me: Well, thanks for talking with us today.

51:10 mf: You’re welcome.